Ben Grimm Ain't Kosher

[shakalooloo]

One panel from Fantastic Four #40 (legacy 680). All this Reckoning nonsense going on, but this is the one thing I took home from the issue:

Comments

[zachbeacon]

Though dying and finding out God (Jack Kirby) really did create you in his own image in the Waid run is bound to be a pretty significant experience.

[thezmage]

It didn't stop Reed from being an atheist though

[zachbeacon]

That take on Reed (and Batman too) always bothered me. Franklin was once kidnapped by literal demons. He hired an actual witch as a nanny. He was in a secret society with Doctor Strange.

"No, its just science I can't explain. Also I won't investigate it despite intellectual curiosity being one of my primary character traits"

Its pretty rare that I think of Tony Stark as relatable but I totally get Iron Man meeting Thor and reevaluating his previous beliefs. I'd probably never eat another burger again if I had Vishnu's cell phone number.

[blues32]

Reed tried to study magic once. He couldn't wrap his head around it. It bent the rules too much. After studying magic, Reed concluded it was something he could never hope to understand, even if he acknowledged its existence.

[blues32]

Which is a total jerk move. God fixed his scarred face with an eraser and he's going to be an atheist? If I had a friend resurrected in front of me by a short old Jewish man using a pencil, I'd convert then and there.

[shakalooloo]

Any random Celestial, Watcher or Elder of the Universe could have done the same thing if they'd wanted.

Given the phenomonal power levels of some of the beings Reed meets - Hell, his own son created an entire universe! - I can't think what display it would take to make him believe in a god.

[blues32]

And what do you think that makes Franklin? What do you think a god is?

[shakalooloo]

It's not what I think Franklin is that counts, only what Reed thinks he is. He is not going to join a religion worshipping his son. There is nothing divine in his origins, only the effect of cosmic radiation. Science!

Reed acknowledges that creatures with 'god-like' powers exist, but does not feel any need to worship them.

[blues32]

Doesn't make them less than gods. Thor is a god, no matter whether a person worships him or not.

[shakalooloo]

They may be gods, but Reed Richards is not going to subscribe to their religion. That is all this discussion was about, wasn't it? How can Reed be an atheist when gods exist?

The difference between a 'god' and a super-powerful alien being is super fuzzy. Is the Impossible Man a god? He can certainly achieve more traditionally god-like feats than Thor.

[thezmage]

No, Reed has outright said that gods and afterlives didn't exist.

[shakalooloo]

Not 'gods' and 'afterlives' as mysterious, unknowable things that religions speak of. Mega-powerful alien forces and other worlds and dimensions that can be travelled to and from just like other planets.

What another might regard with superstition, he sees as science. It is the labelling of such phenomena that he disparages.

[thezmage]

I don't know what to tell you, he was outright denying the existence of things he had experienced firsthand

[blues32]

Atheists dismiss the concept of gods outright. In a world where every religion seems to be correct on some level, it seems absurd to do so.

And I would say Impossible Man is a god if he could actually change his colors.

[shakalooloo]

So Impossible Man isn't a god because he has a limitation?

[blues32]

Because he has a silly limitation. Can't even become a different shade of green.