Mike Carey on the Magneto/Rogue relationship

[xdoop]

[Banned]

Comments

[joysweeper]

That image reminds me pretty strongly of one I saw on Star Wars Insider once, of Count Dooku and Asaj Ventress. Dooku stands there glowering, Ventress drapes herself all over him. I thought it was a reflection of the different ways bad guys are portrayed depending on gender. The male villain isn't always but certainly can be the impassive, relentless, unknowable force. The female villain virtually always has that element of sex, and sometimes that irritating hint that she's just passionate and unless she's thoroughly mad, she could fall for a hero and that would be all she needed to turn back on evil.

Off topic, I know. But this isn't the first time I've seen a composition like that, and remembering the other case got me thinking about why this pose tends to crop up.

I am using a Thrawn icon to comment on art and the society in which it was made. ...How did this happen?

[lamashtar]

*coughwhitequeencough*

Yeah. :(

But I have some nifty sword and sorcery shots of evil queens looming or sitting impassively in their thrones. They're dressed in bikinis or topless, but that's better than draping themselves over The Man.

[joysweeper]

This is why I like Ysanne Isard, the villain of the X Wing Series. She was in love with the Emperor, and she kissed Fel once against his will, but sex just generally has little to do with her. She's one of the few female villains who is neither stunningly hot (admittedly this depends on the artist) nor hideous, she dresses like an Imperial, and there's no story about how she was a good girl who fell on hard times and went bad.

She went into Imperial Intelligence, rose in position until her father tried to have her killed, and then framed him for treason and took his job. I haven't seen anything of her interacting with the Emperor, but certainly she never draped herself over Sate Pestage or the Tribune. ...Really, I like Isard. Even if her reputation outstrips her achievements eventually.

[halialkers]

I dunno, the Draco in Leather Pants phenomenon says that male villains often have elements of sex about them. Even Don Juan has a seedy aspect to him, though a female Don Juan would not be very likely, unfortunately. Tropes have not yet advanced enough for that. >.> Though Catherine the Great was as close to a real-life counterpart as Real Life can create.

[joysweeper]

It's not that the male villains can't be or aren't portrayed that way. It's that they're also portrayed as Evil Towers of Ominousness, and any sex appeal they have in that state is entirely apart from the writhing sensuality of the female villains.

For the male villains, sexuality is an accessory. Some pick it up casually, some base their entire image or purpose around it. For the female villains, sexuality is built into their entire premise. It's having skin. They'll do different things with it, and for some it's a much bigger part of their image than for others, but there are very few without it. Isard might be one, I suppose. Advances on Fel notwithstanding.

[halialkers]

What about when Bastila Shan went to the Dark Side? She didn't exactly turn all stripperific....and then Mary Marvel's evil costume arguably showed as much skin in Final Crisis as the heroine Wonder Woman's did.....

[joysweeper]

Angry Underwear. And did Wonder Woman get upskirt shots or grab a phallic rod with a look of bliss in Countdown?

Sexuality is always innate to women in comics just in general. Yes, the heroines are skimpy too, I'm not arguing that. I'm pointing out that in comparison to how crucial an element sex is in the men, sex is much more essential to the characters who happen to be women. Bad guys even moreso than good guys.

And I'll peace out here, since it's too late at night for this. Here I promised myself I wouldn't get into arguments about feminism...

[kiplingkat]

It's true, Moonstone, Goblin Queen, White Queen, etc. but I think it is more indicative of men's feeling about sex and women. It is assumed that an "evil woman" would automatically exploit men's "weakness" for women and sex and therefore gain power over them by hurting them in a place where they feel vulnerable.

Which is just sexist as all hell, on every single level.

[crabby_lioness]

The same thing has been noted historically when men write about women rulers. They always sex them up, even when there's no evidence to support that premise.

[greenmask]

I'd wonder if it wasn't a power thing too; women are 'supposed' to be supplicant in sex and therefore in a sexual situation men are always "winning". Powerful men, or a majority of men in a patriarchal society, may feel (subconsciously?) threatened by an undeniably powerful woman (Queen, President, Empress, Tower of Psychic Ability..) and therefore introduce a strongly sexual element to her history. Thus, if they met her, they would win because she would allow them to penetrate her.

It is rapey and gross, though, so I hope my armchair is full of bad psychology.

[ravenous_raven]

not in comics, but Google "Seeing Redd." she's the nemesis in that story and doesn't not fall all over any males. nope, she looks down on everyone equally ;)