Batgirl #12: Batwoman Meets Batgirl

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

hmm i think i posted the one or two of these pages monday... other than that, glad you posted the actual fight :D

[maxisanacorn]

Bleh get another colorist and this art wouldn't look so bad. Bad color comp and those light blooms are STILL annoying. That's actually a very good Batwoman.

[turtlefu]

Damn right Kate would destroy Babs in a fistfight. Glad Gail can easily see beyond her Babs-boner for that.

[mullon]

I bet Cassandra Cain could have put up a fight.

[espanolbot]

Or would have, if she still existed, which she probably doesn't.

[spacebetween]

Supposedly she does exist, just we haven't seen her yet.....and at this rate never will :(

[espanolbot]

Someone said that in her appearance in Nightwing, Lady Shiva is meant to be the same age (early to mid twenties) as Dick Grayson now. I've asked them to find me the source, though if it's true, it's highly unlikely that Cass is her daughter so it probably a completely different character IF she exists.

Which is unlikley at this point.

[lencannon]

Cassandra Cain? Who's that? I only know Barbara. Barbara is the only one. Barbara. Barbara.

[glprime]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!

(no, seriously, why can't we have nice things? Must there always be king of the mountain with DCU characters?)

[q99]

I think Cass'd do more than put up a fight :)

Hm, wonder how Steph'd do. She'd be less overconfident going in.

[tsunamiwombat]

"When in doubt - Cheat"

[auggie18]

That's why she's my favorite.

[majingojira]

It's one of the many reasons I love her too.

Be she and Cass are tied in my book :)

[rdfox]

Electro-magna-gooperangs!

[lieut_kettch]

Flaming Ice-arangs!

[thatnickguy]

I've ready very little of Steph's run as Robin, but you just made me fall completely in love with her. Her method sounds awfully similar to Bruce's in terms of knowing what he can handle and not handle.

[jaybee3]

I bet Cassandra would have wiped the floor with Kate despite her military training (and I REALLY like Kate - especially over this new reboot Babs). Cass was raised from birth to be the best, she has a quasi-superpower of reading body language, she beat Shiva, she beat Nyssa (if she exists in the reboot), Bruce even told Timmy he was no MATCH for Cass (something Beechan ignored).

[majingojira]

No, he remembered and had Batman either say it or repeat it, but he only used it as hollow hype.

Why do I remember that? WHY?!

[lucean]

Except I think they established that Bruce and Cass were near each others levels. It's just that even if my memory is a bit fuzzy, I have serious doubts that DC would allow Batman to be second-best to a supporting member of the Bat-clan.

[jaybee3]

Oh, I should have said "except Bruce". No one is really supposed to be Bruce's better in the Bat-verse (heck, even Bane had to use others to wear him down in order to "break" him).

[lucean]

Oh, sorry my bad. I misunderstood your sentence as that Bruce told Tim that Bruce was no match for Cassandra. My fault, sorry about that.

[espanolbot]

You mean aside from Dick being more acrobatic, Barbara being better at computers, and Tim being a potentially better detective? ^^

Batman excels at everything he turns his hand too, though the people who specialise at the individual things that Bruce does (martial arts, computer work, deduction, acrobatics) are slightly better or have the potential to be.

At least that's the way it used to be, as that'd probably be the case in real life too and it also acts as a metaphor for how Batman is made up of the some of his "parts" or something.

Just having him be automatically better than everyone else just makes the rest of the Bat Family redundant, at least in my opinion.

[lucean]

You are correct, of course, although I would probably stress the potential part more myself. I would not necessarily call Tim a better detective than Bruce, but he is the best detective of the remaining Bat-clan and has potential becoming a better detective. With Dick I will concede that he is clearly the better acrobat and Babs used to be better with computers, although I'm not certain how the status works with the current Batgirl.

My wording was a bit bad there, but what I meant was that I highly doubt that they would write any member of the Batclan on a level where they might beat the main Bat himself. So while I would say that Cass was better at Martial Arts, in an actual fight Bruce would have the edge by being so good at other things. It is actually what Johns established in Countdown to Infinity Crisis.

[lieut_kettch]

I think Cass is the better straight-up fighter. Bruce is a better strategist, though, and can probably find a way around Cass' superior training.

[lucean]

I actually disagree with your assessment as on that level one can't separate being the better strategist/tactician from being the better fighter. In the straight-up fight the tactics and general approach to the opponent becomes incredibly important, so Bruce would actually be in that sense the better straight-up fighter. Also, Bruce is the main character of the Bat-mythos, in which his combat prowess is an important aspect. So I kind of feel that claiming that Cass would be better in a fight than Bruce is similar to claiming Supergirl is stronger than Superman. And I realized writing this that I cannot use the same comparison between Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl, because they can't really even be compared.

Now, to be fair, DC will never give a definitive answer on this, especially with the current situation with Cass. So I have to admit that my view is also an opinion. That said, I'm actually kind sad that we were never given that epic smackdown between Shiva and Bruce. I would have loved to read a story of those two simply demolish each other.

[turtlefu]

See, I've always thought that, about how based on Cass's origin and basic premise that she should be Lady Shiva level good, but this is a sliding level of power and if she's good enough to beat Shiva, she's so good that any battle with any other person would only last a minute at most. Like, nobody else could even put up a fight. But we've been shown, multiple times, her struggling with defeating other fighters who AREN'T Shiva-class.

If Cass's power level was consistent she should be able to just "One-Punch" EVERYONE.

[espanolbot]

Cass is good against people of equal or lesser skill, the only people who beat her initially are those with "cheats" (being a shapeshifter, a gorilla, a cyborg etc.), who often beat her first so she goes away, works out their weakness and defeats them at the end of the storyline.

[lieut_kettch]

Put up a fight? Cass would've demolished Kate. Cass defeats special-forces trained fighters like Kate without breaking a sweat.

[big_daddy_d]

Wow. So the title character gets their ass kicked by a guest-starring hero in their own book. Decisively so. Impressive Gail. Most impressive.

P.S. - Not that I think Babs could beat her, because I know she can't beat her in a fight.

[celestialchild]

I love how Batwoman takes the time to pull her cape aside so the bullet doesn't pass through it. Her face just screams, "Fuck no, THERE WILL BE NO HOLES IN MY CAPE." )

[eyz]

Now had Flamebird, Cass and Steph and this would have been the dreamteam!

[lieut_kettch]

Batgirls (and Bat-Girl) unite!

[kenn_el]

I cannot believe we went the entire issue without addressing why the names. Even in the Bronze Age meeting between Babs and Kathy they made a lame attempt to explain why Babs wouldn't 'graduate' to Batwoman. You'd think there'd be a passing reference here as to who came first...or to Batwoman being a legacy thing...or anything. Not even a real reference to age disparity or training or whatever. Very disappointing, as has been the entire series. (And, no, I don't think replacing Babs with either of the other Girls would help...I think another replacement would do the trick.)

[sir_mikael]

Yeah I kind of want Kate to go "Just how old are you?".

[moetushie]

In my heart of hearts, I wanted to see Cass and Kate fighting when I clicked on this cut link.