Detective Comics #23.2 :Harley Quinn

[superfangirl1]

Harley is free of the Suicide Squad and she's having fun in Gotham, but first she has to give out free video game systems to all the boys and girls! Then she dresses up like a cop and visits a police station with quite a bit of dynamite in her car.









Art by: Neil Googe

Comments

[sadoeuphemist]

I think that's a fundamental misreading of the episode. The point was that Batman specifically was not responsible for creating the villains. But the series as a whole was remarkably sympathetic towards the villains. Mr Freeze and the Riddler were screwed over by their employers, Clayface was a victim of a mob boss, Mad Hatter was sympathetic and just plain pathetic, Penguin once went straight but turned back to crime after being mocked and disdained by society, etc.

[md84]

He did have a hand in influencing their gimmicks, but the DA argued that they, or at least people like them, actually created Batman. If Batman didn't show up, they might not have become costumed villains, but they would still be villains.

This series did the Freudian Excuse right. It gave the villains pathos while denying them absolution for their crimes.

[sadoeuphemist]

Yes, and that's absolving Batman of their creation. But if Daggett didn't blackmail and attempt to murder Hagen, he wouldn't have become Clayface. If Boyle hadn't denied Fries' attempts to save his wife, he wouldn't have become Mr. Freeze, etc.

How are the scans above in any way an "absolution" for Harley Quinn? Because she had a dysfunctional family? She literally blows up a bunch of children at the end, it is not an attempt to make her seem sympathetic.

[md84]

It doesn't, true. But it also fails to make her at all sympathetic, so it takes it too far the other way. Unless that was the point. Baiting the reader into sympathizing with her, only for her to do something gut wrenchingly awful and make us feel bad for ever liking her.

And while Hagen and Fries are sympathetic because others turned them into monsters, they still chose to pursue revenge while endangering the lives of others.

[sadoeuphemist]

So... have you just completely reversed your position? The villains are not "fundamentally bad people", and had they not been "turned into monsters" by outside forces, they would not have become evil.

[md84]

Other people turned them into monsters on the outside, but the way they responded to that made them monsters on the inside too, albeit somewhat pitiful ones. Ultimately, it was a choice.

That was the point the DA made in that episode. Regardless of whatever circumstances, including meeting Batman, led to them being costumed villains, they all likely would still be out there causing pain and misery to others. They were responsible for their own messed up lives. Even the "jury" admitted this was true.

Okay, so maybe it's less "Fundamentally bad people" and more "they made bad choices".