ns: GAMERS RISE UP

[deh_tommy]

 

Joker is out today!

 

Whether you’ve seen the film or just want to talk about the thing in general, what are your thoughts?

Beware of spoilers below!

Comments

[cyberghostface]

Going to be seeing it tonight, will come back with my thoughts later.

My only real issue is having Bruce Wayne as a kid and Joker being middle-aged. It means Batman would be beating up a sixty year old or so Joker. But who knows, maybe Joker can discover a Lazarus pit and rejuvenate himself down the line.

[deh_tommy]

I hope you enjoy yourself! Joaquin Phoenix’s portrayal actually reminded me a lot of Telltale’s Joker.

[mastermahan]

I mean, this Bruce comes across as a particularly dumb kid. A malnourished retiree might be all he can handle.

[leahandillyana]

Mediocre. Pandering to progressive audiences, basically a revange fantasy against the rich, but not much depth. I am particularly salty about elements of Jason's backstory being used for the Joker, and him not being Jack Napier.

[ironymaiden]

Could you unpack "pandered to progressive audiences"? I thought this was a very unappealing Joker who says repeatedly that he is not political.

[locuatico]

"Pandering to progressive audiences"
Okay, have you SEEN progressive audiences? they are more on Birds of Prey (at least until they showed Cass throwing a TNT in the trailer...)

[gadz00ks]

While I think "pandering to progressive audiences" is a poor choice of words, it does take cues from similar to the "woke Disney" trend of having the trappings of criticizing society but none of the teeth. It doesn't really intend to challenge or attack the status quo, but would like you to think that way to get more butts in seats.

I'd say progressive baiting would be a better name for it. Advertised as a movie about society but with only the barest bones to say about it.

[kurenai_tenka]

"I am particularly salty about elements of Jason's backstory being used for the Joker"

I have no plans to see it, but this definitely makes me feel salty too lol.

[jaxjyls]

I find that hard to believe with some of the director's complaining woke culture and how the film refuses to take any political sides.

[lucean]

I absolutely loved the film. There's so much I could say about it, and kind of want to say, but I don't know how much sense it does to dive in on a such level here. However, as much as I adored the film, I can easily see why it will probably be such a divisive film.

The big thing is the third act, naturally. When what happens there happens, I felt I had got what the films approach the Joker was, what he represented, and because of that a lot of the stuff and the climax there really popped for me. Yet if the build doesn't for someone else, those final moments are going to come across very differently and probably feel underwhelming to a degree.

One thing, though, that I will stand by is that the performance that Phoenix does in the film is superb. And what I really appreciated is that not only did the film not try to emulate Ledger's Joker, it took a drastically different approach to the character, which in turn really allowed Phoenix to make it feel his own.

[lucean]

Upon further though, there is one scene I want to bring up because I thought it was probably the most comic book oriented meta-moment. However, it also the second to last scene.

When they hit that 'You wouldn't get it' as they showed the birth of the Batman, I was so completely in as the Batman is the biggest joke of it all for Joker. I also loved that scene as there, Phoenix managed to sell it like this was the final form of the Joker, that he had finally truly been born. I'm not even certain when the scene took place, though, as I thought the interviewer was the same therapist that he had been seen earlier, but now had more grey in her hair. Which might indicate that this was years later after those events, but I'm not certain in anyway.

Also on the Wayne scene, I still would accept if someone argued to me that it didn't really happen and it was actually one of Joker's hallucinations, but I do think it probably really took place within the film for two reasons. One is the meta-narrative, as a Joker needs a Batman, but also because the death of Martha was shown from Bruce's perspective and I just don't think Arthur had it in him to see anything from someone else's perspective.

[mazway_75]

I liked this better the first time I saw it when it was "The King of Comedy."

[shadowkat]

Curious, how similar is it to The King of Comedy?

[mastermahan]

Shallow, predictable, repetitive, and not nearly as smart as it seemed to think it was. Yes, Phoenix gave a great performance, but he deserved a better script, better direction, and a deeper character.

And as a Joker film? If you changed all the names, you'd never be able to tell this is supposed to be the Joker. Fleck isn't smart. He isn't funny. Worst of all, he's passive. The ill-defined clown movement is basically a coincidence. Fleck only ends up on live tv for the climax not because of anything he does, but because the universe arranges for it to happen.

I would, however, love to see an alternate universe where Bruce Wayne is inspired by The Gay Blade of Zorro.

[dcbanacek]

I would, however, love to see an alternate universe where Bruce Wayne is inspired by The Gay Blade of Zorro.

The George Hamilton film? Yeah, that would be fun.

[commodus]

I'm seeing it with my brother next week. A bit worried because I am mentally ill, and don't like films like Awakenings or the Elephant Man which deal with themes of illness and social alienation - they can legit put me in a really bad place. So I'm really hoping it's not too depressing.

[mastermahan]

Honestly? It's a pretty depressing film. The main character is subjected to constant, over-the-top cruelty. There are themes of suicide and vaguely defined mental illness. Social alienation is definitely at play.

If it's a concern, I'd recommend being ready for self-care afterwards, or maybe waiting to watch it at home, in a familiar environment and the ability to pause.

Good luck, man.

[nate_abril96]

Watched it with my girlfriend last night. She loved it. I liked it fine, but man, I can see why people would not like it. Not just for the problematic issues (the possibility of certain audience members to interpret Arthur as a hero, and how almost every person who is an obstacle or rude to Arthur being a person of color), but because it's really easy to make fun of if you're not a fan of DC doing dark films. So if people don't like this film I can see why, and if you weren't a fan of the trailers then the movie isn't going to change your mind.

All that being said, this is like the fifth time they showed the Waynes getting shot. I swear they better not show that scene again in Matt Reeves' The Batman.

PS Joaquin Phoenix was amazing. Hope he finally gets his Oscar.

[ekrolo2]

Almost every person who gets in Arthur's way is a person of color? Really? The guys who attack him in the subway are all white guys, the co-worker who rats him out is a fat white guy, Thomas Wayne who punches him is a white guy, Murray played by DeNiro is a white guy. The only non-white people who mess Arthur up are some of the teenagers who steal his sign and beat him up near the start.

[cyberghostface]

Joaquin was great and I really felt for him here. His performance was heartbreaking. That being said I would have liked to see more of a flamboyant and theatrical Joker.

As far as origins go I think I prefer The Killing Joke and Telltale but this was still a solid one.

[shadowkat]

Curious -- how close was it to The Killing Joke? Which is the origin I prefer...although the Killing Joke is a painful comic to read, the Joker origin story is rather brilliant in it.

[nightauditguy]

Didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

[jaxjyls]

Disappointingly the word SOCIETY is only said once in the film

[gadz00ks]

It was just okay to me. Not bad or offensive, but nothing much to praise either.

Phoenix really is the main attraction, as his performance was provocative and chilling. I had a friend in middle school with tourettes, so the scenes of Arthur uncontrollably laughing and society's at times callous reaction to that was haunting.

But whether the movie intentionally tried to have a message, or the news media hyped it up to have one, the end takeaway is just that society made a monster but without much depth or exploration on it. And despite praising it's depiction, I'm still uncomfortable with a mentally ill man becoming a gun-toting psychopath as it runs counter to the message (suggesting "he was always broken" despite the "society did this" framing). That this is being compared to incel culture and real life mass shooters isn't helping (since an overwhelming majority are not mentally ill, despite media suggesting it's so). I'd like to say that's not the movie's fault, but a lot of the language and imagery sure want to paint it up as applicable to modern times so I'm going to complain when it misses the mark.

[thatnickguy]

I'm not going to see it. I just had no interest in seeing it. The announcement made me go "Really?" The trailers didn't do anything for me. And the consensus from reviewers and people I trust pretty much all spell out that I wouldn't enjoy this, anyway.

[icon_uk]

I'm with you I think. I'm sure it's a powerful performance with a grim underlying message, but that's not often the sort of movie I enjoy watching.

[skinrash]

Not gonna bother with it. Taking liberties with the source material I can tolerate to a certain extent, but in the case of this film, it seems to have little in common with The Joker I've seen in the comics. It's been confirmed this was not originally intended to be a Joker movie, they are just using a brand name to promote something unrelated made by people who don't care or know much about the Batman villain.

[cyberghostface]

What do you mean? This was always a Joker film going back to the leaked scripts.

[onsokumaru]

One year ago, this was the cape movie I was the less likely to watch, as recent comics taught me to hate the Joker.
But the trailers won me. It looks like the a "vertigo" movie. I'm gonna watch it because it seems very different from what has been done the character those last years.

[leahandillyana]

Two days, and internet is already full of clownfuckers, resurgence of "daddy's little monster" interpretation of Harley, fanart of her having a harem of Jokers from different adaptations, Joker/Pennywise content etc. It's a bizarre experience. I honestly didn’t expect *that* to be resurrected.

[deh_tommy]

Okay, I don’t mean to kink shame, but what is with Tumblr and finding monstrous clowns to be sexually attractive?

[lordultimus]

Even Thanos liked it.

In all seriousness, it seems strange to me that this movie is getting singled out as glorifying violence, when Birds of Prey: Really A Harley Quinn Movie looks like it's doing that way more than this movie.

[smileriot]

Initially I was ticked off that it had broken the golden rule, replacing his clown disfigurement for paint, but it should have been transparent as a Elseworlds from the start - not halfway during release that it’s meant to be an AU/reimagine. u

Saw it; thought it was brilliant. Excellent performance by Phoenix. Nice little nods to the comics and other canon sources like Zorro, Amusement Mile, giant rats, Joker’s suicide ideations, etc.