Batman's rogues are a lot different in that they're completely batshit crazy, pardon the pun. From what I've seen of Flash's Rogues, they're more blue collar thieves who're out to be respected and admired for what they do--and apparently police their own with extreme prejudice.
I'm not a Flash fan. I'm not a Rogues fan. Hell, I'm not much of a DC fan. But that line is pure freaking gold. Anybody can write the typically modern "crazy-evil-psycho badguy", but villains who have lines they won't cross and rules they won't break are far, far more interesting.
I mean, when I read the preview, I was reminded that Johns was the one who first made Owen grim'n'gritty -- what with murdering that one doctor, but there was at least some small legitimacy in that particular execution -- he had been torturing Owen's dad.
But this? Even with the crap Owen's gotten kicked through over the past year+ in comicbookland, even with the shit he threw down with the Suicide Squad and the Outsiders -- I can't believe that Johns thought it was IC to have Owen dropping kids into the pit.
It doesn't make sense. Not this character. Not when he worked his ass off to be a good guy again. Killing that first dude, the sex offender? I can see that as a Rogue's rough justice. But dropping innocent women and kids? No. It's not IC. I don't know where the hell Johns got this idea, but he's dead wrong.
This coming from a fan who loved everything Johns had written, and was of the opinion he could do no wrong. This is just .. I feel utterly betrayed.
Not just because Owen is my favorite, but -- because it so completely ignores everything that has changed in the character's canon since his introduction. Even if it had been a character I didn't care for, the fact that someone who had put so much effort into reforming would do something so unrepentantly evil just sticks in my craw.
I can only hope that there is more to it than it appears (they're in an old toy factory; maybe the toys laying around are just ... but then, why would Owen remain silent when asked the question?) , because I just can't believe this.
I feel your pain. I've white knighted for Johns in the past, I've really liked a lot of his stuff, but this is all kinds of 'wtf?' demented. It's like he just needed an excuse for Cold to have another moment where he arbitrarily decides he's better than other criminals (I like that about Cold, but it can be pretty arbitrary).
Women, yeah he still hasn't really paid for killing Piper's parents. Instead of the epic beatdown most characters recieve for doing such a thing, all Piper gets is to steal some of MM's money and kick him in the face. Totally not cool.
How can they be unaware of it? I'm just waiting for Steph Brown to decide that leaving inane clues to crimes sounds like fun and while she's at it she should pick up some over the counter naproxen.
Apparently we're not supposed to ask about that, because no relative of a 'good' speedster would ever sleep with a dirty dirty Rogue and make a baby who was just simply born bad.
Not to mention stupid apparently. The Black Lanterns ALL seem to be able to fly, and yet Owen thinks he's got the situation under control by putting him in a HOLE. *facepalm*
It's not even just about the morality/alignment being out of whack, but even just Owen's INTELLIGENCE here...
I expect both of them will come back at the end of Blackest Night and will have issues with the Rogues. Of course talking about how they don't kill women and kids and then killing him so he'll become a Black Lantern is not really effective.
Interesting. The 'We don't kill women and kids' thing is a bit off, yes? I thought the new Trickster was supposed to be pretty insane and didn't mind killing pretty much anything that got in his way. Or has he just hid it that well? Or is it yet another case of the right hand not knowing or caring what the left hand has done?
Axel is pretty much a sociopath, yes. He's been known to attach T-bombs to the homeless for shits and giggles (And he murdered a bunch of college aged wannabe heroes once. He was caught by Detective Chimp. I find that amusing). I think Cold just chalks it up to inexperience and the impulsiveness of youth, turning a blind eye to the more heinous acts and believing that under his guidance Axel will straighten up and fly right...at least by Rogue standards.
(Weather Wizard, on the other hand, assumes that Axel is a freaking moron. I suspect Mirror Master still thinks of him as a mascot/pet).
But yeah, throwing kids in a pit to feed a zombie is something I'd expect more from him (or many of the other Rogues) than Owen.
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Date: 2010-02-17 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 08:51 pm (UTC)http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/3696228959_9bbeef6ae0_o.jpg
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Date: 2010-02-19 03:52 pm (UTC)*right click save*
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Date: 2010-02-17 08:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 09:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-02-17 08:58 pm (UTC)SERIOUSLY?
Not even a goddamn resolution to the fact that he's Bart's brother, or the slightest recognition of that he's been a good guy for... I... I just...
....FUCK YOU JOHNS.
*further ranting later*
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Date: 2010-02-17 09:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-02-17 09:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 09:04 pm (UTC)Owen was one of my favorite NuCharacters! why why why why why
he better come back dammit!
Johns gives us awesome flash moments and THIS owen nmoment?
no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 09:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-02-17 09:05 pm (UTC)There goes one reason to bring Meloni back too.
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Date: 2010-02-18 07:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 09:08 pm (UTC)The Flash's Rogues need to talk to Batman's Rogues. They would be good influences...hopefully. *kicks the Joker*
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Date: 2010-02-18 02:40 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-02-17 09:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 09:13 pm (UTC)I'm not a Flash fan. I'm not a Rogues fan. Hell, I'm not much of a DC fan. But that line is pure freaking gold. Anybody can write the typically modern "crazy-evil-psycho badguy", but villains who have lines they won't cross and rules they won't break are far, far more interesting.
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Date: 2010-02-17 09:53 pm (UTC)Why would my favorite writer do this to my favorite character?
Date: 2010-02-17 09:38 pm (UTC)I mean, when I read the preview, I was reminded that Johns was the one who first made Owen grim'n'gritty -- what with murdering that one doctor, but there was at least some small legitimacy in that particular execution -- he had been torturing Owen's dad.
But this? Even with the crap Owen's gotten kicked through over the past year+ in comicbookland, even with the shit he threw down with the Suicide Squad and the Outsiders -- I can't believe that Johns thought it was IC to have Owen dropping kids into the pit.
It doesn't make sense. Not this character. Not when he worked his ass off to be a good guy again. Killing that first dude, the sex offender? I can see that as a Rogue's rough justice. But dropping innocent women and kids? No. It's not IC. I don't know where the hell Johns got this idea, but he's dead wrong.
This coming from a fan who loved everything Johns had written, and was of the opinion he could do no wrong. This is just .. I feel utterly betrayed.
Not just because Owen is my favorite, but -- because it so completely ignores everything that has changed in the character's canon since his introduction. Even if it had been a character I didn't care for, the fact that someone who had put so much effort into reforming would do something so unrepentantly evil just sticks in my craw.
I can only hope that there is more to it than it appears (they're in an old toy factory; maybe the toys laying around are just ... but then, why would Owen remain silent when asked the question?) , because I just can't believe this.
Re: Why would my favorite writer do this to my favorite character?
Date: 2010-02-17 11:53 pm (UTC)Re: Why would my favorite writer do this to my favorite character?
From:Re: Why would my favorite writer do this to my favorite character?
From:no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 09:46 pm (UTC)The Rogues don't kill women or children.
Did Cold not realize McCulloch was standing right behind him?
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Date: 2010-02-17 09:58 pm (UTC)Women, yeah he still hasn't really paid for killing Piper's parents. Instead of the epic beatdown most characters recieve for doing such a thing, all Piper gets is to steal some of MM's money and kick him in the face. Totally not cool.
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Date: 2010-02-17 10:03 pm (UTC)...I really hope DC isn't aware of the predetermination message they've been broadcasting since Infinite Crisis.
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Date: 2010-02-17 10:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-02-17 10:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 10:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 10:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-17 11:43 pm (UTC)On the other hand...
Date: 2010-02-17 11:44 pm (UTC)<---
Re: On the other hand...
Date: 2010-02-17 11:57 pm (UTC)Re: On the other hand...
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Date: 2010-02-17 11:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-18 01:50 am (UTC)Not to mention stupid apparently. The Black Lanterns ALL seem to be able to fly, and yet Owen thinks he's got the situation under control by putting him in a HOLE. *facepalm*
It's not even just about the morality/alignment being out of whack, but even just Owen's INTELLIGENCE here...
(no subject)
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Date: 2010-02-18 01:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-18 01:39 am (UTC)All will be well?
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Date: 2010-02-18 02:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-18 02:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-02-18 03:30 am (UTC)But I'm more disappointed that Capt. Boomerang isn't wearing his cute little hat. :(
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Date: 2010-02-18 03:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-02-18 03:59 am (UTC)(Weather Wizard, on the other hand, assumes that Axel is a freaking moron. I suspect Mirror Master still thinks of him as a mascot/pet).
But yeah, throwing kids in a pit to feed a zombie is something I'd expect more from him (or many of the other Rogues) than Owen.
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