Amazing Spider-Man #700

[cyberghostface]

Dying in Dr. Octopus' body, Spidey confronts Ock (in his body) one last time. Peter is unable to transfer his consciousness back, but as his life flashes before his eyes Ock receives them as well via their mental link, with himself in place of Peter in them.



Ock (still in Spidey's body) tells Spidey he doesn't want this, and asks how he can do what Spidey does. Spidey (in Ock's body) tells him that he has to, because with great power...



But "Ock" is dead.





While this will probably last as long as Captain America's death did, I actually like the idea of a (reformed?) Ock as Spider-Man. I think there's a lot of potential with this idea and I'm definitely on board for Superior Spider-Man.

So I'm surprised to say this, but kudos to Slott. I'm looking forward to see where Ock!Spidey goes from here.

EDIT: There's an interesting write-up here.

Comments

[protogarrett]

I imagine the true Parker Memories will resurface and retain dominance so that Ock's personality no longer exists leaving only a true Peter Parker (of sorts).

Also, won't people notice "Peter" not acting like, well, Peter?

[theflames]

But that would still mean the actual Peter Parker is dead.

[walkingthroughforest]

Excuse me for a minute, I think there's a baby I have to go kick somewhere.

[randyripoff]

I'm wavering between "eh" or "Meh".

To me, this isn't much different from giving Peter six arms. I'm just not that into it.

[seisachtheia]

Hmm. Well, that's...weird. Maybe he and Loki can meet and have coffee and swap tips about being bad guys who took the place of good guys. Or something.

[zabilac]

I'm not really getting how Oc is suddenly reformed villain.

[icon_uk]

He's just had Peter's entire heroic career and ethos crashloaded into his own mind, the sheer strength of Peter's morality and heroism, which Octavius has just experienced as first hand memories, are more powerful than Octavius' petty greed and vanity. He can't be the villain any more because he's seen a better way of doing things, and having seen it, must act on it, because it's what Peter would have done.

[silverhammerman]

I think this is awful on multiple levels, including the thematic, somewhat nonsensical in the Marvel U (Surely Spidey's friends and allies would catch on eventually, in which case them not doing anything would be pretty damned immoral) as well as creepy and off-putting, and it genuinely makes me kind of angry, but I can get over it. I wasn't reading Spider-Man before this, and this certainly isn't going to have me rushing out to buy it, so I'm not that disappointed that this is a direction that I won't be onboard for and we all know that even if sales don't plummet and give Marvel a swift kick in the ass (which is my personal hope given that I'm sick of Marvel being so weirdly antagonistic and dismissive of what its fans want) things will still probably be back to normal in a year or so, and even if Dan Slott is genuinely dedicated to making this the status quo, which I somewhat doubt for the above reasons of it making no damn sense, it'll still end eventually. Because at some point a writer is going to get on the book and say "Hey, I want to write that actual fucking Spider-Man, not this weak shit." and change it back.
No, what really gets me about this is just who is it supposed to be for? Pretty much all the reaction I've seen online has been resoundingly negative, so clearly fans are not pleased with this. I don't think it'll appeal to the casual fan eithe someone familiar with Spidey from the movies and such, would probably pick this up and dismiss it as the kind of the stupid shit that makes comics inaccessible.
So who is this supposed to appeal to? It pisses off the hardcore fans, and the casual fans probably won't be interested, so I just don't see any point to this move. Is this just Dan Slott's vanity story or something?
Anyway, I might elaborate later, but right now I'm pretty tired so this is all I have to say:
This is dumb, offends me as a fan, and I'm not going to buy it.

[arbre_rieur]

Never assume Internet reaction is reflective of actual real world reception. If it was, BLUE BEETLE, UNTOLD TALES OF SPIDER-MAN, THOR THE MIGHTY AVENGER, and various other "fan favorites" would have been best sellers instead of cancelled.

[sun_man]

I'm okay with this. but than I haven't given a shit about 616 Spidey since OMD so what do I know

[weber_dubois22]

I'm not even a regular reader of Amazing Spider-Man, let alone kept constant track of the arc that led us to this event, but this was some sad writing and artwork.

Moreover, the Miguel fan is kinda disappointed and glad that it isn't him who's the Superior Spider-Man. Now my wallet can't bludgeon me to death for adding another comic to my list.

I'm not really getting how Oc is suddenly reformed villain.

Neither am I, honestly. A 'shared connection' or not, I'm not sure how a montage of Peter's hardships would even have Doctor Octopus budge remotely on his hatred of Spider-Man in the least, let alone want to do "good" as the new Spider-Man. This is a narrative cop-out if I ever read one.

[biod]

Wasn't the official position that Doc Ock knew about suffering and life etc. but was so bitter and spiteful he just didn't give a shit and had gotten moreso as the years went on?
Because that Doc would laugh in the face of this little montage.

[icon_uk]

Except it's not just a visual montage, it's now things he remembers happening to him first hand, with all the emotional resonance that they had for Peter.

[sadoeuphemist]

Hahaha, someone post that scene where Doc Ock (as Peter) insults Mary Jane for being useless, making her blurt out she still loves him, and then they kiss.

[biod]

What.
WHAT.
WHAAAAAAAAAAAT.

[kd_the_movie]

I think its pretty obvious that KAINE is going to be the one who knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isnt Peter, 'specially since Kaine is still indebted to Peter for saving his life and helping him have his new lease on life.

[sir_mikael]

Lol, didn't Kaine kill Doc Ock once?

[chrisdv]

So many things about this pissed me off when I read it a week ago (My LCS broke the street date for this week's comics for their customers with pull lists) but one thing (Out of many) that really pissed me off - Dan Slott seems to think the ASM readers can't remember the last time Ock was seen, trying to KILL 98% OF LIFE ON EARTH so he'd be remembered as history's greatest monster, all of 8 months ago.

[arbre_rieur]

"Dan Slott seems to think the ASM readers can't remember the last time Ock was seen, trying to KILL 98% OF LIFE ON EARTH so he'd be remembered as history's greatest monster, all of 8 months ago."

What makes you say that? This is a Dr. Octopus transformed by first-hand experience of Peter's memories and morality.

[captainbellman]

I don't recognise that woman with the glasses and bathrobe. Or any of these characters, really. And for once, that isn't Humberto Ramos' fault.

Seriously...ever since "One More Day", every giant advertised event story in Spider-Man's life just seems to have the net result of making him an unlikeable jerk in an entirely different way.

[sir_mikael]

I think.... that's Jonah's wife Marla, Gwen, Captain Stacy and Billy Conners?

[icon_uk]

s_d regular chocochuy asked me, due to them not being around for a couple of weeks, to post this when ASM 700 was posted, and so I will, but bear in mind this is not icon_uk's POV and I won't be replying to any comments left in reply to it.

Having just read Amazing Spiderman 700 and its subsequent epilogue, there is a taste of both sadness and powerlessness withing myself.

I remember it was around Winter 1998 when I had the chance to read the infamous "Web of Death" arc and I actually believed Spidey was going to die just when life was starting to smile. After months of wangst and senseless anger, Spidey was starting to recover his optimism and was gonna become a father just for some deadly virus to start devouring his health. I remember crying all those nights on December trying to know he was going to survive and, to my surprise, salvation came in the likes of Otto Octavius. Both men had been mortal enemies for years yet teamed up to restore themselves to their former glory in some particular "friendship". Tears of joy rolled around my cheek as Spidey was given a second chance and it was very sad to see Otto die at the end. Cliche as it may have been, that was one helluva story and one of me favorite Spidey/Doc Ock dynamics.

Which brings us to this recent world shattering event.

I am not gonna dwell on the details but I felt this issue was more a pastiche of rushed elements rather than the mother of all storylines. Yep, it was heartwarming to have Spidey makes peace with all his dead friends, I even cried with Uncle Ben, but it seemed as if such scene wasnt really part of the actual story. I somehow feel we were meant to have much more context on the death of our favorite wall-crawler and only got to see just 70 % of the intended story. It went too fast as Otto went from impact-webbing MJ and the others with prejudice to Spidey incarnated (although his faux memories looked nice, especially the one where he lifts all that machinery). The epilogue did a much better job at re-humanizing Otto and, by Crom, making him gain new respect to our late friendly neighbor. May Galactus have mercy now that the Superior Spiderman is here to stay, ready to crush us like flies(or to have crushes ON us as Icon_UK once mentioned).

I could rant some more but, to be honest, I was not that shocked with this story. Do not get me wrong, I am slightly mad with Dan Slott but I wouldnt go so low as sending him death threats as it was informed when this issue was leaked. It was a half-baked cop out and we will miss our good old Peter Parker as we did with Kal-El on 1992 (coincidence?)but there were some enjoyable moments. Only time will tell how will the Superior Spiderman will impact the Marvel Universe and it would be interesting to see how will this affect the Mephisto Deal considering Peter`s true soul is no longer inside his body. Anyhow, a minute of silence for a fallen hero.

[thanekos]

I love how the next-to-last page is sentiment both noble and petty.

Ock's internal monologue is probably going to be the best part of this, with all the interactions he's going to be having.

(I totally want something with Iron Man, just for something like..

" .. do you remember that time I brought you to your knees, begging? "

" .. what? "

" Oh, nothing.. ")

I have only one thing to say…

[bewareofgeek]

With great power does NOT come great egotism.

_Superior_? Not in my eyes.

[spikespeigel]

Meh. Bendis did it better. I know, I'm as shocked as you are that I actually said that. But I was genuinely moved by how the Ultimate universe dealt with Peter's death. And the world knew he was dead. This just feels like, even in the end, Peter ended up with the short end of the stick.

[captainbellman]

Technically, Bendis did it better - TWICE. He did the "Freaky Friday" thing with Ultimate Wolverine, recognising that it's only a worthwhile plot device when played for laughs, and he gave Peter a heroic and meaningful death.

So, yes. Bendis 2; Slott...a very very large negative number, considering the other awfulness he's visited upon poor Peter.

[sir_mikael]

I think this is sort of interesting actually. Of course, people will notice eventually and it'd be interesting if to see what happens then if they stick to it. I want him to be kicked out of the Avengers and hunted down for a while, that could be a great story. Spidey would be a loner outcast again, but this time because he's actually a villain. Things will get back to normal eventually.

But a lot of icky stuff can happen with MJ in the mean time of course which is less good. And uh didn't Ock already have all of Pete's memories? So I fail to see why getting them again would have any real impact on him?
And I wanna know what the hell is up with the costume changes, is it just to claw at people? Before it was confirmed it was Otto I assumed they were how the new Spidey would wall-crawl (like Miguel O'Hara does) but I guess not.

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, this is kind of why part of me doesn't think this is going to last long. It might have worked back in Spidey's early days when even other heroes didn't trust him, but with the current status quo there's no way they wouldn't catch on. And if the Avengers or whoever does find out then they pretty much have to do something because to not do anything would be grossly immoral. It's not even a Magneto-esque case where the dude has genuinely reformed and is just trying to make amends, Doc Ock murdered a dude and stole his life and is now walking around avoiding justice, even with the guilt download he's still a multiple murderer, so they can't let this slide, especially when the murdered man is someone whom they've all known and fought alongside.
I don't know about the MJ thing though, I mean, Slott has been kind of annoying with how he teases the fans about how MJ and Supe!Spidey'll be getting together, but I really hope he doesn't go through with that. It would be genuinely fucked up and I would genuinely hope that Slott catches a lot of shit for it. Because it is a rape-y concept. Just saying.

[auggie18]

...wait, did this just come out? I thought this came out weeks ago. Even my friends who are only vaguely into comics have been making jokes about it for a while. (Spider-Man's been acting pretty odd recently. It's like he's running on Otto-pilot!)

[cyberghostface]

It was leaked by someone at Marvel but it only came out today.

[an_idol_mind]

Well, that means that I finally have a Spider-Man who didn't sell his marriage to the Devil, I guess.

[an_idol_mind]

Incidentally, I would think this also voids the Mephisto deal, since MJ made sure he'd leave Peter alone until the end of his days, and the end of said days have just happened.

[arilou_skiff]

First of all, if anyone thinks this is going to last for more than a couple of story arcs they're fools.

That said, as such a story arc... I kinda don't mind it. Slott might still fuck up the execution (he tends to do that) but as an idea it's... Kinda interesting.

[cyberghostface]

Not expecting it to be permanent but it could last a couple of years.

[kirke_novak]

Just been on Bleeding Cool where there's a discussion about the implications of this, if Ock has sex with MJ. Generally, a bunch of guys deciding on what is and isn't rape.Literally. Gems include "sex is a physical thing, she's having sex with Peters body so no" and "she consented to have sex with Ock even if she believed its Peter so no rape."

I immediately run here.

[cyberghostface]

Do these people not know about "rape by deception"?

Although I still don't think Slott will go down that route. But we'll see.

[bardbrain]

Guys, guys. This isn't a permanent death.

This is just how the writer maneuvers Peter into a direct confrontation with Mephisto, builds up Doc Ock, kills off Kaine, and sets things up both for the real Peter and Mary Jane to be back together and for Spider-man to be an outlaw again.

This is the end of part one.

By the time this is over, we'll see dead Peter vs. Mephisto. Kaine will die. We'll probably at least see Ben Reilly again.

The whole idea here is constructing an epic out of things people hate, old and new. And that's what having a continuity lets a writer do.

[silverhammerman]

I would totally read that story of yours, it sounds pretty interesting. However, I think that if that's really the direction that Marvel is going with though, they should really make that clear as soon as possible. Because that's a cool story, I want to read that, but I'm still not at all interested in the whole Spider-Ock concept and I'm not going to read a book in the hopes that it will eventually change to be more to my liking. I'm not sure I'd want to see Kaine die though, I think his series is pretty good, so killing him off would be a bit of a waste.

[raspberryrain]

O.O